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State Trooper Vehicles Hacked
Threaded  |  Newest First  |  Oldest First
RyanSepe
RyanSepe,
 User Rank: Ninja
9/30/2015 | 2:03:58 PM
Nice to See
It's nice to see that cyber security is becoming more prevalent at the law enforcement level in terms of the police and special task forces because they are the closest link to the general populous when something nefarious is occuring. Before, there were specialists that needed to be consulted, and there still are but I think that general population didn't know the proper protocols and so it made it difficult to gather data and spread awareness.
Kelly Jackson Higgins
Kelly Jackson Higgins,
 User Rank: Strategist
9/30/2015 | 2:17:40 PM
Re: Nice to See
This was a pretty interesting project, with some key players. It's also really amazing that both Ford and GM would comment when I contacted them. This is the first I've seen them say much if anything about car hacking and cybersecurity for vehicles. 
StaceyE
StaceyE,
 User Rank: Apprentice
9/30/2015 | 7:39:10 PM
Re: Nice to See
Wow. The thought if cars being hacked makes me glad I still drive a car from the 20th century.
RyanSepe
RyanSepe,
 User Rank: Ninja
10/1/2015 | 2:45:51 PM
Re: Nice to See
StaceyE

Sometimes the only way to be safe from the grid is to get off it entirely. :)
Blog Voyage
Blog Voyage,
 User Rank: Strategist
10/3/2015 | 9:14:01 AM
Re: Nice to See
Yes, absolutely stunning
StaceyE
StaceyE,
 User Rank: Apprentice
9/30/2015 | 8:07:06 PM
Re: Nice to See
Wow. The thought if cars being hacked makes me glad I still drive a car from the 20th century.
carmicheals
carmicheals,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2015 | 1:15:06 AM
OBD, not ODB!
"Sagar Momin, engineer and co-founder of Kaprica, says his proof-of-concept tool could be plugged into the car's so-called On Board Diagnostic s (ODB) II in the form of a dongle."

On-Board (Vehicle) Diagnostics is OBD II.  ODB (RIP) generally refers to the late Ol' Dirty Bastard of Wu-Tang Clan fame...

I see this mislabeling quite frequently in articles that discuss On-Board (Vehicle) Diagnostics.

The devil is indeed in the details!  
Kelly Jackson Higgins
Kelly Jackson Higgins,
 User Rank: Strategist
10/1/2015 | 12:38:18 PM
Re: OBD, not ODB!
Thanks for the typo catch--we fixed it this AM. =)
OBD Engineer
OBD Engineer,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2015 | 10:53:19 AM
THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
I am an OBDII expert. These articles about hacking into cars are so deceiving.  In order to hack most cars, physical access to the cars diagnostics port in the interior of the car is required.  Want to stop a hack, unplug the device in the cars port.  One would have to break into a cop car first in order to HACK it.   People saying they need a solution right away are just trying to generate business for themselves.  NO SOLUTION is needed and as a matter of fact, solutions will kill legitimate business that plug dongles into cars for monitoring.  Its simple, dont buy an OBDII piece from someone without testing it first or without a reputation.  ANYBODY can hack your pc if they sell you a harddrive or flash memory stick that has physcial access.   There is no reason for this and they are asking to add cost to a vehicle for nothing.  Again it requires physical access to the car.  Nothing should be done to limit the access on the OBDII port.  This would also drastically intefere with vehicle emissions inspections as well. Cars with wireless connections or wireless OBDII dongles that allow commands to be sent to car are a different sotry.  We purposely do not allow commands to be sent to a car through our wireless OBD dongle for that reason.  We control the commands .

 
mwalker871
mwalker871,
 User Rank: Guru
10/1/2015 | 12:23:34 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Do you really think it is so very difficult to gain surrepticious physical access? Where are these cars serviced? Are there any mechanics there who could be bribed/threatened. That's usually how "security" is thwarted, from the inside.

As soon as the word "can't" comes out of your mouth, or off your fingers, know you too will be pwned.

We're easily 2 years into solid awareness on this issue: arstechnica -- disabling-a-cars-brakes-and-speed-by-hacking-its-computers-a-new-how-to

It's pretty clear that not just the OBD II port is at risk.

This cracking example is just one more case of security as an afterthought, and a consequence of "we can do it, so we will do it" in design/engineering.

I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen a OnStar crack.
mwalker871
mwalker871,
 User Rank: Guru
10/1/2015 | 12:36:27 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Maybe that's more like 5 years: autosec.org -- faq.html

And maybe OnStar has been targeted.

Anyone that thinks they are going to beat the distributed efforts of a fraction of the intellectual resources of the internet has an idiot for an advisor.

Also don't forget the internet runs on internet time, not your wallclock time or your calendar time.
OBD Engineer
OBD Engineer,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/1/2015 | 12:50:50 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Yes it is very difficult to gain physical access.    Again just check the port and if there is no device there there is no access.  Its that simple.  Look at the study.  They had to go through the port.  Nothing you can do will prevent someone from going under the hood and installing wires or changing components.   No matter how ridicualously expensive you make it, if I can modify parts, I can get in or simply replace them.  The article used physical access to the OBDII port.   If you make using the OBDII port harder, the end result is that diagnsotics information will be only owned by the CAR MANUFACTURERS.  Thats what they want.  I am guessing thats who financed the study.  If the study was done proper, it would be done to prevent access through telematics and WIFI systems like ONSTAR and not worry about physcial access. Worrying about hacking through physical access is a waste of consumer money.  Imagine if I had to protect a computer from physical access that was not connected to anything IE no internet.  The cost to design slots and electronics that could not be physically modified would be extreme.  THE OBDII PORT IS NOT A PROBLEM.  NO DEVICE PLUGGED IN - NO PROBLEM.  As soon as you give wireless access outside the vehicle then it becomes a problem unless the device plugged into the OBDII port allows CAN (or other communication protocols)  commands to be sent direclty to the car.     
GeorgeAS
GeorgeAS,
 User Rank: Strategist
10/8/2015 | 11:30:49 AM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
As the article stated: "The hacks of the VSP cruisers require initial physical tampering of the vehicle as well." So, yeah... I think we can downgrade the severity category here. Don't even need an OBD device to cause havoc with the electronics.
OBD Engineer
OBD Engineer,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/8/2015 | 2:25:23 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Yes much less severe. The threat they exposed is eliminated by using an OBDII device that occupies the port.  Its the wireless OEM and telematics access they should be more worried about.     
theb0x
theb0x,
 User Rank: Ninja
10/10/2015 | 7:46:45 AM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Speaking of tampering and shielding, a well constructed EMP would make a perfect firmware upgrade.
theb0x
theb0x,
 User Rank: Ninja
10/7/2015 | 9:54:55 AM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Are you suggesting that law enforcement do not ever leave their doors unlocked? 

My vehicle has an OBD I and has no emission requirments. The connection is located under the hood, not under the dash which I find many technicians unable determine. Physical access to the vehicle must first be obtained to pop the hood. However they would have to of located the battery kill switch, and ignition kill switch which are both hidden. I do not have ABS brakes, Power Locks, Bluetooth, or Electronic Parking Break...

And the best part is, it's a manual transmission.

What would be so difficult with relocating the OBD connections somewhere more nondiscrete? Access could be granted via laser cut key, biometric fingerprint, or facebook.

 

 

 
OBD Engineer
OBD Engineer,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/7/2015 | 12:39:56 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Your post makes sense and no I am not suggesting that they dont leave their doors unlocked.  However with physical access to the inside of the cars or under the hood I can do so many thinds to the car in many different ways if I study the car and understand it.  I can cut sensors, replace components, replace connectors, tap into things, reporgraom the ECU, replace the ECU, mess wiht the throttle, ect.  Its impossible to prevent this and preventing physicall access of changing the OBDII would add  huge unnecessary cost to the cars for the general public.   Unless the car is wireless, there is not an easy way in as is the scare tactic used by the article.  You cant prevent physical access to car systems .  Relocating the OBDII port somehwere else would require changing the adopted OBDII laws across the country and would require all vehicle manufactures to change their standard design as all vehicles built since 1996 have the connector in the same location with the same access.  The emissions tests would also have to be changed and would be much more complicated.  This would all be huge expense for a problem that doesnt exist.  The OEMS would like this because they would own the diagnostic market more than they already do.  If you want to protect the police cars from access to the OBDII port just simply get an obdii device that plugs into the OBDII port that notifies the police when it is disconnected.  This is a far simpler and cost effective approach.   Once the device is plugged in, everything they are worried about in the article goes away.  We could easily make this device.
theb0x
theb0x,
 User Rank: Ninja
10/7/2015 | 1:01:18 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
That is an excellent suggestion. However it is possible to pin out the OBD II connector, tap the wires utilizing alligator clips and without removing any shielding.  The connector would not have to be removed in order to bypass the security.
OBD Engineer
OBD Engineer,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/7/2015 | 1:18:05 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Unless you prevent physical access and armor the cabin of the vehicle and the underhood of the vehicle you cannot fix this problem of tampering with vehicles.  I can always tap or cut wires to gain acess.  With respect to OBD though there are other ways to make a device smarter for almost no additional cost to sense someone tampering with the port to prevent what you bring up.  There is no sense in killing the OBDII system at great expense to consumers and the publice unless you fix physcial acess to the car.  A simple solution prevents the methods discussed in the article     
MajV212
MajV212,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/7/2015 | 5:28:50 PM
Re: THESE ARTICLES ARE SO DECEVING
Agreed.  If you can leave a device in a car... well, boom.  

Or stuck underneath the car :-)

And you're worried about ODBC / CAN bus physical hacks?
TCRUSE762
TCRUSE762,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/3/2015 | 10:55:37 AM
Cars and Smart Guns
We have been hearing a lot about "Smart Guns" as the answer to gun theif and unauthorized use.  The problem with cars being hacked is just one more example of why it is not a good idea to have you gun tied to a wireless connection.

Both a car and a gun can cause the "good guy" to be killed.  However, in a car the electronics and external connections serve a useful purpose.  For the Smart Gun they serve only a made up political agenda item.
TejGandhi1986
TejGandhi1986,
 User Rank: Apprentice
10/5/2015 | 9:12:29 PM
Vehicles compromised
Considering the vehicles getting compromised.There was also an investigation raised regarding Malaysian Airlines plane being being cyber hijacked through mobile phone.

Cyber security needs to come to the forefront and addressed cause to ensure that users with malicious intent cannot exploit these vulnerabilities.


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