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WiIl Millennials Be The Death Of Data Security?
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Marilyn Cohodas
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Marilyn Cohodas,
User Rank: Strategist
1/27/2015 | 2:53:00 PM
Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Are you really that tone-deaf when it comes to data security? 
ODA155
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ODA155,
User Rank: Ninja
1/27/2015 | 5:00:59 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Marilyn Cohodas... OK... I'm personally biased when it comes to this question, mostly because I'm not a Millennial and because I'm a security professional I tend to question anything regarding data security and privacy, especially mine.

So something happened last week, I heard about this app called "WAZE", so I went out to their website and checked out their "Privacy Policy" (...by the way, you have none), then I went to the Google Play to see what the permissions were to use this app... and OMG, let me put it this way, you're basically giving away your phone and whatever information that's on it, you may as well stand on a corner and pass out prepared documents with everything about yourself.This app will create an account for you based on your phone number and other information it gets from your device!

So I mention this after a department meeting where about 10 of the people ARE Millennials, and they all use it, but none of them took the time to read the Privacy agreement of look at all of the permissions needed. "It's a cool app" that's what they said, they all assume that their information is already known to whoever wants it. I know my little survey was not scientific by no means, but I wonder what would the numbers be if there were a real poll... makes me wonder.

But, to answer the original question "Will Millennials Be The Death Of Data Security?"... I hope they're smarter than that and understand the costs.
Dr.T
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Dr.T,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 11:05:48 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
I love Waze, I would give anything to e babel to use it :-)-). Waze was a successful startup and was bought by Google, they saw how much engagement this app could create. 
Kelly22
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Kelly22,
User Rank: Author
1/28/2015 | 1:29:33 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
I would also be interested in learning the results of that poll. I think because most younger millennials grew up in an age of widespread information sharing, many don't think twice about giving personal data to apps and services online. To most, it's just a means of getting the next cool, convenient app. I'm a millennial and while I don't use Waze, I know plenty of people who do. Chances are, there are more than one who didn't read the privacy policy.

That said, I also know millennials who do take the time to protect their online identities, but many times, those are people who have been affected by hacks in the past.
ChrisRouland
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ChrisRouland,
User Rank: Strategist
1/28/2015 | 2:50:59 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Marilyn - great post.  I think what most people don't seem to understand if that if an App is free, YOU are the product.  Would you pay $0.99/mo for a version of Waze that gave you privacy?
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:15:27 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
I once wrote a Tweet explaining every privacy policy ever.  twitter.com/JoeStanganelli/status/525343726877810689
Teach21
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Teach21,
User Rank: Apprentice
1/29/2015 | 12:22:35 PM
OK, Joe
I don't think this post is ageist, Millennials ENJOY giving up their data. They are the "look at me" generation that brought you the selfie stick. The post never said that Millennials were stupid, just that they were a little "loose" with their personal information. This comes from an almost inante trust of technology. While this is fine for personal devices on personal networks, it becomes a larger issue when these data snatching apps start getting on corporate assets.

 

Love Always, 

Old Age Gen X-er That Cuts Your Paycheck
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
1/29/2015 | 9:32:00 PM
Re: OK, Joe
Not to be pedantic, but the very nature of such generalization makes it ageist, just as one's prejudice would show if one made the same generalizations about race, ethnicity, religion, or whatnot.
Kelly Jackson Higgins
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Kelly Jackson Higgins,
User Rank: Strategist
1/27/2015 | 5:33:19 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Why should they worry if every time their debit card or credit card is compromised, it gets replaced? Or if their Facebook account is hijacked, they just get FB to fix it. I don't think this is just a millenial problem--I think it's a consumer in general problem. Not much to sweat unless you're hit with a personal targeted attack, financial ruin, etc. "I just get a new debit card" is a famous quote I've heard from millenials and elders. 
Dr.T
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Dr.T,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:55:17 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
I agree completely. There is no real consequences when an attack happens other than we talk about it and speculate around that. Both attackers and person who does not remove vulnerability should be held responsible. 
ODA155
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ODA155,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 11:31:33 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
@ Kelly Jackson Higgins, the points you make are dead on. The problem is, as technology (whatever the technology is) advances the trend or mantra is "lets make this easier, more efficient", well easy and efficient seems to always trump security and as someone else pointed out that has been passed down from one generation to the next. But, something else has been passed down, education and history, and I have to believe that these Millenials may very well be "smarter" in terms of education and documented history than any generation before them... I just hope they're smart enough to recognize the path we're on and make some adjustments... I think they are, but it's going to take some really hard lessons and hurting along the way.

@ DR T... as for you and WAZE... I'm glad that you love it, you said "...bought by Google, they saw how much engagement this app could create...." , Google only obtained WAZE because they saw how many more people they could add to their DB's, that's business.
Kelly Jackson Higgins
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Kelly Jackson Higgins,
User Rank: Strategist
1/28/2015 | 11:35:58 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
I keep asking the question about the ultimate financial impact of all of this: It can't be a sustainable model for the economy. Eventually all of this replacing credit cards & debit cards, covering ID theft losses, and recovering from data breach losses has to come home to roost. That's the big question.
ODA155
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ODA155,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 11:40:12 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
@ Kelly Jackson Higgins... only when the corporations that are collecting and who are responsible for this data are actually held accountable.
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:17:09 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
I think the recent news reports that sheriffs/police are up in arms over Waze for giving out speed trap information and violating police privacy are hilarious.
Pragmatic_Security
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Pragmatic_Security,
User Rank: Apprentice
1/30/2015 | 2:38:33 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Kelly,

Although do agree (I noticed I've been typing a superflous 'do' in front of everything... I'm becoming a flight attendant) "I'll just get a new debit card" is probably the pervasive attitude for user consumers, I wouldn't categorize it as a "consumer problem", or a "problem" at all.  I think it's a psychological norm based on evidence seen everywhere.

As I'm going to assume everyone in the room understands that the security of any financial information, PII, or PHI is only as secure as the third, forth, fifth, or sixth party that handles it.  One could practice 'reasonable and prudent due care' in all online financial transactions and stilll have a card compromised by an attack stemming from an unprotected endpoint at an HVAC service provider and a subsequent egregious lack of network segmentation at the target company... That can happen while I'm out buying mulch on a balmy Sunday afternoon, not just transactions surrounding counterfiet prescription drugs at canadianonlinepharmacy.ru.

As with the weather, certain forms of cancer, automobile accidents and plane crashes, it's not psychologically healthy to worry about things you can't control or predict. I'm going to keep blankets in my car, eat my fiber, wear my seatbelt, take my valium when I get to the airport, and I'll also uninstall JAVA and run EMET on my windows machines, but I can't stay up at night wondering when the next consumer credit card data breach will occur.  It's easier to tell myself "the bank will take care of it" when the bank actually does take care of it.  I know that my data will be breached at some point due to circumstances beyond my control, so I view everything I post online as public (forever), and subscribe to a credit monitoring service.  Simply the controls of worry and paranoia only yield marginal efficacy against the ALE of data breach.

Social media connectivity and the disappearance of privacy is something younger individuals take for granted (not always explicitly), and when they're running the world, they'll be the bosses with public instragram photos of them giving the duckface smile, clanging cosmo glasses together with her girlfriends at a nightclub... It's a changing sociological norm.

I'm a borderline millennial (although I detest the association...get off my lawn) and an information security manager.  Although people may think its weird, refreshing, or offensive to have a boss with large tattoos, sometimes peeking through rolled-up sleeves, I'm the boss, and my competence and caring about how they're developing as professionals and people carries through.

The internet-of-nouns is here to stay, let's adjust.


I sincerely do thank you for reading and understand you have many choices while reading comments, I sincerely appreciate the minute you've spent reading and hope you enjoy your stay in the new landscape of information risk management.  Please see the gate attendant/infrastructure lead for a list of connections.
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
2/1/2015 | 6:23:39 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
One interesting thing about those shady, spammy online pharmacies is that in many cases, they are very interested in providing good customer service and not compromising their customers because it's so important to them to be able to continue to accept major credit card payments -- and they don't want to be blacklisted.

(Incidentally, just started reading Brian Krebs's Spam Nation.  Fascinating stuff.)
ChrisRouland
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ChrisRouland,
User Rank: Strategist
2/2/2015 | 10:49:40 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Great points, Pragmatic Security. There is a need for evolution in security, and while my point may have been originally intended to highlight the younger generations acceptance of looser privacy policies, that by no means, is to say that they're alone. Younger generations are more connected than ever and their connected devices will impact the corporate network. But, so will the fitness bands that HR gives out to cut insurance costs. This shift to an "always on" society means we need to rethink traditional security boundaries.
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:12:07 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Although I'm not a Millennial, I am a member of the younger side of Gen-X -- and I found the headline a bit miffing.  (You old people are the ones who need our constant hand-holding when it comes to technology!  20+ years ago, we were programming your VCRs for you!  And you still don't understand your TV remote controls as well as we do!  And we don't even watch TV!  Also, we don't fall for those email phishing attempts as much as you folks do.)

The younger generations perhaps understand data privacy better than anyone else.  The Snapchat example demonstrates not a failure to appreciate security but rather an understanding and acceptance that no system is truly 100% secure; they treat data security like the risk-reward proposition it truly is.

As for the using personal apps on corporate devices, that's been happening since long before most Millennials were even born.

It's far more productive to identify the risks presented by human nature and mitigate these risks than it is to make sweeping, ageist generalizations that will only ostracize colleagues and thereby harm collaborative security efforts.

Rant over.  (You can go back to sucking up those social security dollars that WE GAVE YOU.)
ODA155
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ODA155,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:49:47 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
"Also, we don't fall for those email phishing attempts as much as you folks do."

Really Joe Stanganelli... you sure about that?
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
1/29/2015 | 1:21:14 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Actually, I'm quite confident.  The one far-too-often-cited 2010 study that purports to demonstrate that those aged 18-25 were the most likely to fall for phishing attacks was fundamentally flawed because its sample was comprised entirely of Amazon Mechanical Turk users -- which tend to lean very young.  (Indeed, the *average* age of study participants was 29-30.)

Meanwhile, all kinds of studies and statistics demonstrate that fraudsters of all kinds -- online and offline -- repeatedly target (and find the most success targeting) the elderly.

In any case, my preceding comment/rant was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and I hope/trust it was taken that way.  :)
ODA155
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ODA155,
User Rank: Ninja
1/29/2015 | 9:28:26 AM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
Hey Joe, I got the whole tongue-in-cheek thing, I thought it was funny. And Phunny you should mention phishing and who is more susceptible, from what I can tell from having to deal with it at work at least 10 times per month, there is no age requirement for stupidity (yeah I said it!).

I know this a little off topic, but please bear with me. I'm sure that everyone here knows that there are many types of phishing scams out there,  but from the perspective of my company and what we've been dealing with mostly:
  • Administrative
    • Help Desk
    • Account Deactivation
    • Password Reset
  • Financial (CEO\CFO) Money Transfer Requests
  • 419 or Nigerian Scams ( if you get caught up in this you deserve to be fleeced)
  • Email Attachments

But last week we saw a different one, a message seeming to come from our accounting department, targeting other members of the accounting department (..yeah...) notifying them of their annual bonus, $7,500! And all they had to do was fill out the form and return it... like I said there is no age requirement for stupidity because 17 people got the email and only one person did not open it and I have to believe that was because she was not in the office and doesn't have a corporate mobile device. The victims spanned the generational divide so as I said there is no age requirement for stupidity.

But as far as studies or even polls (as I suggested earlier) go... ask any accountant, or crook, you can make the numbers look any way you want them to look, it just depends on what side of the argument you're on. I believe what I see, and I know that doesn't mount to nothing outside of my world, because a pool or a study is nothing more than a point to argue.

But I do have faith in these Millennials to get it right and it really doesn't matter if previous generations or old CEO's didn't make security a priority, again, they have access to so much more information and education and knowledge but as some have said earlier in other posts... I'm just an old guy who hopes that it doesn't hurt too bad before they get it.
 
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
1/29/2015 | 9:30:24 PM
Re: Ok Millennials, defend yourselves!
@ODA155: That's a really good point, and the story reminds me of security advice I read once (and, indeed, this is something that security auditors sometimes do): Send a phishing-like email to your staff, and whomever opens it is informed that it was a fake email and they immediately have to complete security training right then and there.  This winds up leading to dramatic drops in successful phishing attempts on employees.
dholmesf5
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dholmesf5,
User Rank: Author
1/28/2015 | 10:47:04 AM
At least they'll have someone to blame
In the same way that all the Generation Xers blamed the Baby Boom for all the world's ills, the Millenials can blame the Generation Xers for not building more security into the systems.

Or perhaps we Genreation Xers can pass the blame back to the Boomers for not including security in the Internet in the first place!
Dr.T
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Dr.T,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:51:49 AM
Re: At least they'll have someone to blame
Good point. We know we are not blaming ourselves today but complaining bout it all the times. The same will happen for millennials, they will also expect less discussion around security and privacy, those are boring subjects. :--))
Marilyn Cohodas
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Marilyn Cohodas,
User Rank: Strategist
1/28/2015 | 11:13:25 AM
Re: At least they'll have someone to blame
 they will also expect less discussion around security and privacy, those are boring subjects. :--))

@DrT -- If your comment presumes that Millennials will expect less discussion around security and privacy because the problems will be solved, more power to them! (But I doubt it)
Dr.T
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Dr.T,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 10:48:37 AM
Security and privacy
 

Today, nobody really cares about security until they were hit, some would have concern around privacy. When it comes to millennials privacy would be less of a concern. That simply means we will see more hacking but less action to avoid them. We obviously need just opposite of it.
Whoopty
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Whoopty,
User Rank: Ninja
1/28/2015 | 11:33:01 AM
Big age range
People need to remember that these 'generational' identities are very broad. I'm technically a millenial and yet can remember firmly what it was like to be online pre-'95. Myself and my contemporaries have a very different view on personal data than millenials that were born just a few years later. 

There's something about people who were given access to social networks at a young age that I think makes them more data promiscuous.

Either that or I'm just a grump who wants his privacy and personal space. 
lunny
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lunny,
User Rank: Strategist
1/28/2015 | 4:02:37 PM
Data, data everywhere...
What if data essentially becomes unprotectable?  At some point, so much is being shared, be it intentional, inadvertent, stolen and posted, or inferred (Big Data analytics).  As security professionals, do we soon run out of fingers to put in the dyke?  I don't care who has my credit card number if I am assured that no one but me can use it.

Years ago, when I was in the Air Force, we had our name, address, phone number, and social security number printed on our personal checks!  You couldn't cash a check at the base exchange without it.  But at that time, my social security number wasn't of any practical use to another person.  That's clearly changed of course.  But if we can better address the problem of who is permitted to use the data, protecting if from being known becomes less important.  That still leaves a lot of data that people would prefer to keep private, but it's something to think about.

Finding ways to better manage how data is used may be more effective than trying to keep it confidential.
IMjustinkern
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IMjustinkern,
User Rank: Strategist
1/28/2015 | 5:10:07 PM
More connected or less concerned?
Was there a generation particularly more concerned with security? Judging by the droves of leaks, breaches and attacks in the last few years, it doesn't seem so. While I agree that Millenials as a whole are more connected, I would be more worried about the typically older set who make up the executive team -- fewer devices, sure, but in contact with much more sensitive information.  These are generalities, to be certain, though I think if there were any generation to "get" security (for the first time, en masse), it'd be the one which is more connected, not less.
Marilyn Cohodas
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Marilyn Cohodas,
User Rank: Strategist
1/30/2015 | 11:55:49 AM
Re: More connected or less concerned?
Get with it guys, who doesn't want new proglems to solve?.. Isn't this the whole reason we got into the field?

Definitely represents a lot of job security, for sure!
Pragmatic_Security
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Pragmatic_Security,
User Rank: Apprentice
1/30/2015 | 11:57:23 AM
Re: More connected or less concerned?
In my typographical errors I've invented a new, awesome word.. "Proglems".

'Proglems = Progressive Problems'

Sometimes when you fail, something awesome happens.
Marilyn Cohodas
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Marilyn Cohodas,
User Rank: Strategist
1/30/2015 | 12:00:06 PM
Re: More connected or less concerned?
That's often where the best innovation comes from! Thanks @Pragmatic_Security!
Pragmatic_Security
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Pragmatic_Security,
User Rank: Apprentice
1/30/2015 | 12:02:47 PM
Re: More connected or less concerned?
Thanks, Marilyn.

Original text (edit of my 'proglems' typo rejected)

As information security professionals, it's onus is on us to secure what people DO, not what WE WANT THEM TO DO.  

Individuals who have no memory of the world without the internet simply take a lack of privacy as a given. How can you blame them, given the deluge of breach, surveilance, and "CYBER APT BUZZWORD BUZZWORD" headlines bombarding twitter feeds and google news home pages?

As industry continues to move to a distributed, "As a service" model of technologies, we must adapt... This holds true to demographics in the workplace.  Trust boundaries change, BYOD networks completely logically segregated from the trusted corporate assets and strong network access control come into play.

Get with it guys, who doesn't want new proglems to solve?.. Isn't this the whole reason we got into the field?

 
Marilyn Cohodas
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Marilyn Cohodas,
User Rank: Strategist
1/30/2015 | 12:06:34 PM
Re: More connected or less concerned?
Thanks for reposting @Pragmatic_Security. My fingers had a "proglem" with the keyboard and I accidently deleted your post, instead of approving it!
Joe Stanganelli
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Joe Stanganelli,
User Rank: Ninja
2/1/2015 | 6:26:21 PM
Re: More connected or less concerned?
@Pragmatic_Security: Yours has got to be perhaps my favorite comment on this site ever.  You're absolutely right.  Play the hand you're dealt rather than wring your hands about what the perfect end user should be like (especially when the end user knows little else than to give up some degree of privacy).


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